Steve (in best You Paid For It styling) also loses track of where he is and directs complaints to the wrong alderman.

"Do you know who I am"???? Patterson's ego is getting out of hand. Best Gadfly isn't the same as, oh, Most Valuable Player or even Homecoming King.

Here's what blows me away...13 US soldiers died in Iraq or Afghanistan in the past few days; we've legalized torture and warrantless eavesdropping and spent ALL the money. And yet Patterson wants civil disobedience for parking cones and, shudder, ugly shopping centers!

Steve needs to talk to somebody.

ellen your comments are ridiculous. Patterson's "Do you know who I am?" question was perfectly legitimate in the context....watch the video. They guy accuses him of being a nobody who never does anything for the city so Pattersoin responded "Do you know who I am?" in a non-egotistical tone simply as a response, meaning that he does in fact do a great deal for this city, unlike the owner/manager was trying to assert.

As for the Iraq, torture, and other irrelevant to the current topic "points" you made, Patterson is a local blogger fighting for urbanism in STL....he has nothing to do with the issues you mentioned. there is a name for this kind of argument and it is called Ignoratio elenchi:

Ignoratio elenchi - is the logical fallacy of presenting an argument that may in itself be valid, but which proves or supports a different proposition than the one it is purporting to prove or support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

Urban Elitist: Your thin skin seems familiar. "Do you know who I am?" may or may not have been appropriate. It is almost certainly emblematic.

Your citation of ignoratio elenchi actually underscores my point. Here's a hint...think about levels of outrage and the things/events that spark it.

Specific tactics aside, one could make a reasonable case that Steve Patterson's focus on compact development and alternative/mass transit ARE in fact related to the Iraq war. Drastically reducing the United States' dependence on foreign oil would significantly impact public policy, including Bush's doctrine of pre-emptive war.

Ellen may choose to go out and wave her "War - Not in My Name" signs at Cheney and Bush. Steve P. is tilting at a different windmill. Transportation policy is one of the fundamental reasons we are in this pickle to begin with.

Oh ellen, whether you agree or disagree about Pattersons tactics (personaly I think he was a bit over the top. If I came over to his place of business and stated rearaging things then he would get mad too I bet), brining crap about the war in Iraq and other international issues is just plain foolish. All politics is local and if you want to do something that will actualy make a difference in peoples lives, then work to make the city a better place to live, not whine about wars in distant lands...

Issues aside, it seems this thread is more about questioning Patterson's tactics.

Patterson, after raising the issue of abusive valet parking for months, has taken it to the streets, literally.

One can support an urbanist agenda without supporting Steve Patterson. Yes children, it's true. And, you are quite right that our development and transportation lifestyle is intrinsically related to our foriegn policy.

Sign waiving probably is tilting at windmills. However, political action (walking door-to-door, talking with voters) against Republicans can lead to change. Yesterday on his blog Patterson shills for a Republican for License Collector and third party candidates for Senate.

Frankly, people who are serious about making change in our community are trying to influence the people who are going to win. And most of them aren't pulling stunts that call more attention to themselves than their cause.

Ellen,

Focusing solely on the issue of valet parking abuse, what would you do differently?

If you say work with the aldermen, Downtown Partnership, and the police, Patterson has already been there and done that ad nauseum. Nothing has changed.

At that point do you just quit?

Well, for starters I'd know who the alderman is and have a conversation. And I'd work with other property owners and businesses to build beyond a coalition of one. Lots and lots of wrongs have been righted this way. And if the situation was serious enough, and the alderman blew me off, I'd work to beat him or her at election.

There is one more sad truth. It appears that Patterson is both knowledgeable and gifted in the area of design and planning. When he discusses an area or a building he identifies and comments on details that most would never notice but which obviously factor into the overall look.

But he won't teach or influence anybody because he's such an ass about it. He mocks people who disagree with him. He mocks people who may not even be aware of him. I doubt that his teachers at SLU use mocking as a tool.

What a waste.

OK, let me clear up a few things.

I wrongly attributed the 1100 block to the 5th Ward. As Richard Callow points out it is the 7th Ward. The 1200 block with equally bad valet parking problems at Lucas Park Grille is in the 5th ward. The 1300 block gets spillover valet parking from Lucas Park Grille is in the 6th Ward. 3 blocks with the same problem and 3 different aldermen. However, all have been using the same valet company and all permits are issued by a single city department.

The only "tactic" I employed was to remove about six cones from the public street. I did not seek out the owner --- he came out to me. A police officer has twice removed cones from the street in an attempt to enforce the terms of the permit. This was done once at my request as I saw a beat cop out walking in the 1000 block of Washington. The second time the same cop was removing the cones as I happened to scooter by --- he flagged me down and said I the issue was being discussed downtown.

The Downtown Partnership has been made aware of this issue for months. The valet companies are aware of the rules yet continue to flagrantly disregard them. Earlier attempts by myself to sit on a committee to help draft legislation to create a valet ordinance were turned down.

And yes, we have soilders dying in a war over oil because we are too dependent on cars in this country --- I'm working to change that.

And Dave --- this video is proving to be highly constructive. Finally after months of trying the polite St. Louis way I believe change will indeed occur. I had a good face to face conversation about the issue with Downtown Partnership director Jim Cloar this morning.

Well ellen, it's obvious to everyone here you just have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to Patterson.

First you try to somehow link the War to Patterson with some pretty faulty logic about how he should be up in arms about that and not parking. Then when called out on it you change gears and say Patterson should talk to the Aldermen, and work with businesses to try and resolve the issue. Plus if that fails then he should try to run and beat the Aldermen....well guess what ....he's done all of those things as well, including running for Alderman.
Once called on all of that you then just show your true colors with a blatant anti-Patterson rant:
"But he won't teach or influence anybody because he's such an ass about it. He mocks people who disagree with him. He mocks people who may not even be aware of him. I doubt that his teachers at SLU use mocking as a tool.
What a waste."

Good show ellen...who are you? One of Florida's children?

^ Jim Cloar, the President and CEO. Details.

I love the way people distort or hear things they way they want to. Steve does not say "Do you know who I am" - After repeated attacks by ET (manager or owner of Copia?), numerous expletives like "f**k you and F**k Joe Edwards" and ET saying "I dont care who you are" - Steve simply says "you don't even know who I am" - Give me a break! Anyone of you who has posted here and criticized Steve Patterson, tell me why Copia should take over both sides of Washington Avenue, using 300 feet of parking space whether its a tuesday or saturday. Regardless of Steve's tactics, which I have no problem with, he's right, yet all most of you can focus on this one phrase rather than the real issue and problem presented by the post.

Who am I? Why, are you going to come to my house and rearrange the front garden? Are you going to find out if I'm working on any projects and then try to destroy them in your blog? Are you going to, gasp, put bad stuff about me in Wikipedia?

Ellen,

I applaud Steve for looking at ALL of the candidates for any election. Straight-party voting is an atrocity. Those who do so are seriously naive about politics and life in general and I feel the same way about people who think the two-party system is the only option. Don't support Bush? That is great, that is your right, and frankly I am on your side about that. Simply supporting all democrats because of that opinion, though, is what will really destroy this country. Look at what it has done to our city. Our country is on a continual downhill slide because people (& politicians) choose to ONLY support Republicans or Democrats, not the individual candidates.

Back on topic, kind of, I do not see how any of this actually is relevant to the original post.........

Well, if you were gardening illegally, blocking the sidewalk for days on end with your tools, I proabably would put them back on your lawn where they belong.

It's called being a pro-active citizen.

Urban Elitist, I think you are missing the point of Ellen's comments. She started by saying that maybe parking wasn't one of the Big issues facing people in today's society, what with the Republican's in office taking bribes, trying to molest little boys and spending our country into debt. When others countered with "how would you change this problem" a stupid question with the above mentioned more important and far more dangerous problems in the world she responds with a plan of action. And those of you with your heads up Steve's ass, jump her shit about it because you think Steve is God and must always be right because he said so. Open your eyes. See the forest and the trees. Parking may be a problem, but the valet's don't make any money if people can park themselves. They are trying to protect their way of making money just as you would. Why does Steve attack the valet's more than the Republican's making money on the war. That seems like a far greater injustice. Blogs are powerful tools, if used correctly they can change the world, not just parking ordinances.

Why are you trying to change the argument? Patterson's blog is called "Urban St. Louis." Why would he be talking about Iraq necessarily? Or, to look at it another way, should we ignore all other injustices and problems in the world because of Iraq? How does that make any sense?

And my head is no where near Patterson's ass.

Yes, it is about Urban St. Louis. Patterson is the one who wrote about the senatorial candidates on his blog. Now perhaps he's learned that they have some special positions on valet parking and bike racks but I'm thinking, not.

Questioning the relative importance of this Valet-gate problem to the public is legitimate. Steve is the one who has offered it up.

Regardless of the topic at hand, I like this Ellen.

She is one funny poster. I love "her" "rearrange the front garden" remark. That is classic.

And one more thing, what about Elliot Davis?

Steve, you're in good company when the media starts comparing you to The Elliot.

The Senate and bike racks? What are you talking about? Red herrings leave a bad taste in my mouth.

For someone so interested in the Great Issues Facing Our Time, it seems a bit ironic that you're so worked up about Patterson moving a few cones off a public street.

I have to wonder WHY Steve didn't go in and talk to the manager/owner of Copia first? Go directly to the source? If someone left their "tools" in an inappropriate place wouldn't the good citizen, neighborly thing to do be to speak to the person first? Instead, some choose to take matters into their own hands and then hold a grudge. Those are the people who die young from years of built up stress.

wow, talk about needing to get a life! This guy is a class A-1 Loser. who the hell cares if the valets use freaking parking spaces? I have never had a problem parking on Washington ave. and I go there plenty...

Ok. So now "ellen" has started posting under the screenname "Defender of Good".

"Defender of Good" What don't you understand about logical fallacies? You are changing the subject. Steve has no more business blogging about Iraq than CNN has business reporting about valet parking in STL.

It's called staying in the context of the argument...you and "ellen" should learn how to do it if you expect to be winning any debates.

"Who am I? Why, are you going to come to my house and rearrange the front garden? Are you going to find out if I'm working on any projects and then try to destroy them in your blog? Are you going to, gasp, put bad stuff about me in Wikipedia?"

This response just plain made absolutely no sense and is a poor attempt to deflect my point. Me asking “who are you?” was a rhetorical question designed to mean "Why do you have a grudge against Steve Patterson?" as you clearly are far from objective.

SteveK, I believe Ellen's reference to Senators and bike racks has to do with Steve's lifelong goal of putting a bike rack in every home. "Her" point about him bringing politics into his blog seems valid though. If he is going to use his blog on urban design to talk of politics than maybe he should expand his outrage just like he has expanded the definition of his blog.

Steve, I forgot that you're operating in an irony-free zone. Sorry. I won't let it happen again.

Steve should park a P.O.D.S. in front of Copia before they get outlawed. The fact of the matter is... People suck and will always try to get away with more that they are entitled. The police should have started issuing tickets instead of "removing cones." If you hit a low margin restaurant in the pocketbook, you are much more likely to get results.

Does anyone deserve to eat the lense of a camera? Nope.

Wow, Urban Elitist, defending yourself against two people is to difficult for you so you had to make us the same. To bad. And you say that we aren't objective, how about you. Your post clearly have a slight ting of Steve love to them.

TRouble, I heard camera lenses are delicious with marinara and parmesan cheese, and a nice dinner salad.

Defender of Good, if you truly are two people(which in all honesty I do believe you are), then you share the same penchant for using fallacies to try and distract people from the actual topic of debate. Since neither of you has really made a valid argument/point, I have nothing to defend.

Painful to watch? Not really. No offense to Steve, but I expected him to get more worked up than he did. The owner's bad attitude is there from the beginning.

This is a big issue for downtown, and "playing nice" will never change the ongoing theft of public space that hurts the vitality of downtown. My approach is different from Steve's, but he is to be commended for doing more than playing the usual game in which critics are conveniently ignored or easily recuperated into the game.

Ellen, I forgot that you're operating in a logic-free zone.

I would also like to know Steve's (and for that matter Urban Elitist's) definition of "working with" another person to affect change. I too have "worked with" people who thought if they told me what to do and I did it we were "working together" but if that didn't happen I was the one not "working with" them.

If Stevie P. could get over his sense of blogger superiority he could put the real media onto this story. Why isn't Elliot Davis doing something? I bet the problem would get solved more quickly if Steve had brought him along for the escapade. I'm mean, Elliot has to be tired of following Tom Sullivan around to MSD meetings.

One comment on Dave's original post: How can a restaurant owner have a long week when it's only Tuesday? If that's the case he needs to change careers. I don't think we need to make excuses for this guys behavior.

Whether you find the issue of parking downtown an important issue or not, and you should since the Century Building was demolished for parking, one can admire Steve for actually protesting a valid issue in St. Louis. Many people complain about XYZ issue yet do absolutely nothing. Even if you disagree it is admirable that Steve exercised his Constitutional Right of public speech and assembly. The apathy and armchair dissent is ridiculous.

If you care about "more important" issues like the Iraqi "War," then protest, petition, lobby, etc. Don't get on here and criticize someone for taking political action when you are doing nothing. Steve puts a huge amount of time and research into his website. Why don’t you do the same for your “important issues?”

This debate has been very interesting. I am a city resident who goes downtown very often and I have never had a problem parking. I never have a problem because I either find a space, use a garage or use valet. That is what any "urban" dweller expects when they are going to any downtown of any major city in the United States.

I was shocked by the, "You don't know who I am!" comment. The shock came from the fact that Mr. Patterson constantly attacks people in power by throwing their weight around and yet he now hypocritically does it himself. It is obvious from just a casual observation that he is a very ego driven individual who thinks that he is all knowing about what should take place in St. Louis and that everyone else is inferior to him and his thoughts.

Although I am very sure that he will read this post but not take my advice, I would suggest that Mr. Patterson try to change his methods and behavior before he becomes the person who complains all of the time and never compliments anyone for any reason. Trying to advise and suggest in private to those city, state and federal officials that you criticize might actually get you somewhere other than being against them just because they hold an office. You should have some appreciation for that since you tried to be one of them.

"Although I am very sure that he will read this post but not take my advice, I would suggest that Mr. Patterson try to change his methods and behavior before he becomes the person who complains all of the time and never compliments anyone for any reason. Trying to advise and suggest in private to those city, state and federal officials that you criticize might actually get you somewhere other than being against them just because they hold an office. You should have some appreciation for that since you tried to be one of them."

Let me say this one more time for those that missed it: I have had numerous emails and conversations with the Director of Streets about this issue in private for month. I've contacted the Treasurer's Dept (responsible for parking revenue) and gotten nowhere.

I've been to many downtowns in the US and Canada and I have never expected to see 20 public parking spaces in the matter of 2-3 blocks reserved for patrons of a few select businesses. That , to me, is unprecedented. We are sending the wrong message about our downtown if we continue to allow the valet areas to take a disproportionate amount of the public spaces.

"How can a restaurant owner have a long week when it's only Tuesday? If that's the case he needs to change careers. I don't think we need to make excuses for this guys behavior."

Restaurant managers do not run on a traditional week model. Also realize if you call one at 8am you are unlikely to get a response. We close our business later to accomodate people at the end of their week. Our hours are all over the place. There is no set week for a restaurant employee.

While I do feel sorry for the guy, it is funny as all get out. If he only knew who Steve was...so funny!!

Hey kids- the ACC is having their five year anniversary part at the Royale next Wednesday the, uh, let me check, the 11th of October at I think 5:30 or 6. You know, when you get out of work. Except for the people that work in the restaurant business! I am going to be spinning the wax for this hot event. Nerd music!

Happy Trails,

Steven Smith